“Sweetie, you mean everything to me, and I’d like to spend the rest of my life with you in wedded bliss. Will you take my hand in marriage?”
“I’d love to, dear. I’ll just need you to sign right here. And initial here next to the alimony section. That part’s really important.”
Prenuptial agreements strike me as a bit of an oddity. I have to be honest and tell you that I don’t actually know anyone personally who has entered into a pre-marriage contract.
Of course, I’ve heard of the wide array of celebrity prenups, which usually get dissected in the media when the couple splits. But no one I know has admitted to signing any agreements for how things will shake down when their marriage goes down the tubes.
Are we Mid-westerners just naive and simple folk?
Marriage is Grand. Divorce is Fifty Grand.
Well, I recently came across an article on USA Today’s site entitled Prenuptial Agreements: Unromantic, but Important that had 340 comments. As the title may infer, it’s pretty much a prenuptial agreement love fest.
I learned a few new things from this article, but I mostly confirmed my own closed-minded, backwoods beliefs about the idea of pre-arranging your divorce (works for funerals, right?). Here are a few of my favorite tidbits and quotes from the USA Today/Bar Association article followed by a bit of my own (very sarcastic) commentary:
LeAnna Kruckeberg, 24, of Iowa City, says that she has already told her boyfriend of about one year that she would like him to sign a prenup if they get married.
“Family money stays in the family and should be passed down from generation to generation,” she says. “Why should those businesses that my grandparents and my parents built on good old-fashioned hard work be given to someone who marries into a family?
“Any inheritance or trust funds should go to my kids and completely bypass my husband.”
Her boyfriend knows the stories of her relatives’ struggles as they built businesses, so “he understands and respects” her prenup thinking, she says.
Dustin’s Thoughts: This poor guy doesn’t stand a chance with his little lady and in-laws if he doesn’t grow some bigger…fortitude. And I would have to ask LeAnna, “Why should those businesses be given to YOU, princess?”
Personal-finance expert Suze Orman encourages every engaged couple to get prenuptial agreements to protect their current and future assets as well as to shield themselves in case a mate secretly runs up massive credit card debt (which could damage both partners’ credit scores).
Dustin’s Thoughts: I haven’t had the occasion here to give my thoughts on Ms. Orman. While she is certainly a bright and successful woman, I feel like her advice is usually divisive and centered primarily on her propensity for man-hate. She also worships at the feet of FICO (credit score company) and clearly has no appreciation for traditional marriage.
And I’m not saying that because she happens to be a lesbian. Her advice to couples seems to always hinge on the presumption that divorce is imminent and the man-beast will be leaving his little lady barefoot and pregnant…I find this kind of paradigm repulsive.
Prenups can even outline what is expected of a spouse’s behavior.
“I had a client who was willing to pay his wife a special amount each year provided she didn’t do cocaine,” says prenup guide author Nachshin. “The agreement was to pay her $25,000 a year. He had the right to drug test her, and if she was clean, she was able to get $25,000.”
The wife stayed off the drugs, and over the last 10 years she received $250,000.
Dustin’s Thoughts: Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner in the contest for the couple best exhibiting the loving benefits of prenuptial agreements. If you can’t closely monitor your spouse’s abuse of narcotics and reward her with large sums of money for passing annual drug tests, then why get married?
I think this is precisely what St. Paul was referring to when he said the two shall become one flesh. Beautiful.
But Wait, There’s More!
I obviously chose some pretty ridiculous examples of situations where prenuptial agreements were deemed necessary. The problem is the article is full of them, and I didn’t even have to exaggerate the stories or take them out of context.
These are the actual examples that USA Today chose to make their point. It was these folks that they interviewed to demonstrate why we all need to draft a specific contract before our wedding day that will ease things when our divorce rolls around.
Seriously.
If you think you and your fiance have things covered, perhaps you haven’t considered the amount of weight he could gain or her eventual loss in interest of sexual intimacy with you. I’m not sure how the blame gets assigned appropriately when several issues get mixed in.
I mean, who should get the bonus check if his beer belly is the reason she is sexually repulsed? But maybe her loss of interest in him drove him to the brown bottle?
How can we decide? Ah yes, we are blessed with the optimistic opinions of lawyers specializing in the field of divorce-before-marriage. From the article:
Some prenups address issues such as adultery, frequency of intimacy, limitations of weight gain, the scheduling of housekeeping and provisions for pets, says attorney Eskind Moses.
Those clauses may seem unnecessary to some folks, but nailing down what is important to each individual — be it the ownership of a ski house, retaining the rights to an antique tea set or determining who keeps Fido — is vital to do before the marriage laws kick in, say pro-prenup lawyers and financial advisers.
Thank you, Moses. Eskind Moses, that is.
Are Prenuptial Agreements Always Bad?
Since I’ve held back throughout this post, I really need to get my true feelings off my chest. 
Personally, I am a big fan of being proactive, but I cannot imagine requiring or being required to sign a prenuptial agreement.
It seems like a very poor way to prepare for marriage, and it feels an awful lot like pre-planning your divorce to me. I firmly believe that marriage is for life, and the premise of prenuptial agreements just does not jive with my own values.
That said, I do think there are several special circumstances where a prenup can make reasonable sense. If those getting married have previous marriages and a complicated mix of blended families, I can see the value in clarifying up-front how the various estates are intertwined.
After all, just because a man and woman think that this is “the one” doesn’t mean that their adult children from three different marriages agree. That’s a wicked web that probably should be worked out up-front.
Likewise, I can see the value of prenuptial agreements whenever a major imbalance in wealth exists. The main reason I feel this way is that large sums of money just make people act a bit crazy.
When millions of dollars are on the line, a legal agreement may be needed to keep both families sane and ensure that intentions are true. I still don’t believe this is a good thing from a spiritual perspective, but it may be an unfortunate necessity under those circumstances.
What Do YOU Think?
Do you have a prenuptial agreement?
Do you think they are a good idea, always bad or sometimes okay?
What if your daughter got engaged but her fiance required a prenup? What would you say under that scenario? No foul language, please 
Hi, I'm Dustin. My wife Bethany and I are passionate about helping you live a married life you love.
I'm excited that you're here, and I invite you to 
This whole concept of prenup has had my life in uproar for atleast a year and half now.
I am a Christian woman my husband is also. We have been married almost 2 yrs. he is very wealthy. I have had many assets and great income but walked away from a lot of security in my 16 year marriage to my last husb just to get away safely. It was not worth the damage being caused to me and my 3 children any more.
My current husb asked me to marry him and shortly after that said would I have a prob with a small prenup because he has a business and family property and investments and 3 children of his own. I am very reasonable. It did sting at first. But after I thought about it a bit I agreed. Within a week or two I was at an atty office of my own. Who kept trying to tell me not to do it. I ignored him. When he kept reading me the proposal I tuned out. I signed and told him to keep my copy. I would t need it. We were married within 1 week.
About 6 months later, I asked my husb for copy of prenup. I have cried nearly every day rehashing what it really says.
It is very explicit about “separating ” our financial future. The house we live in is his, the cars, his, the boat , his, property, his, any investments are his, checking accts (I don’t even know how many there are ) they are his too ).
I did find out that when I married him my adult children lost scholarship money from the colleges they attend. It’s not their fault. But I will be paying for it-not my husband. I also found out recently that because I married him my income at my job instantly reduced about 20% because I am now in a 47% tax bracket.
My husband is a dr. I work two jobs. He has 3 kids. 2 live with us now full time. I feel like I am very reasonable. I cook I clean I mow the grass. I work 2 jobs. I am a very dedicated employee and a good mother to my 3 kids and to his also.
I have loved this man unconditionally. However, I am beginning to feel like a fool here. I have no retirement. I feel no security. He has made it very clear thru his prenup that we will live a seperate financial future. And yet from time to time he will tell me he is going to take care of me and show me a good life. I don’t know what a good life is anymore. I’m writing to a forum of people I have no idea who they are because I am too ashamed to talk to my family or friends about signing a prenup like this. I feel misguided by him.
I do not feel like I am an equal spouse to him. I have tried to tell him I thought marriage vows were for the living, estate planning and wills were for death. And a prenup is only for a divorce.
He could go run around on me have an affair and I would have absolutely no recourse according to our prenup. I on the other hand would be living with a lying cheater or be homeless.
I cannot figure out a way to get past this. We are planning to go to a counselor soon and I am terrified because I am just getting angrier and angrier and I cannot find a way to deal with all my emotions……
Sounds like your prenup is unconscionable. A judge would throw it out if you got divorced. He can’t put you on the streets and there has to be some level of support. I would talk to an attorney and see if you can get it thrown out now.
Has anyone experienced psychological, emotional and financial harm by signing a prenuptial agreement such as: fixation on the agreement, feelings of frustation, resentment, depression, fear about the future, low self-esteem. Please tell me your story
Refer to my story please Anne. I could elaborate and go on and on. But insecurity is a direct effect of my self esteem. I am very curious to see how or if many women especially have dealt with this much. One of my biggest problems is this is not something I would ever discuss openly with my friends or associates. It is very private. People throw judgement instantly when you discuss finances let alone prenups. I have no one close enough to me I can talk to. Even my closest friends are very judgemental of my husband So I have really had a very hard time carrying this around with me. And in my situation so many people ask me why are you still working. I mean your husband is a dr. Why are you doing this?
I do enjoy work. I did come into my marriage with debt from a previous marriage that I want to resolve. And I am doing that. But the average person is so mean and rude when it comes to these very personal matters. And I know I should let it all just slide off my back. I am highly emotional when it comes to this and have a very hard time dealing with these sensitive issues. Any comments or sdvice is always helpful. Thank you
P.A.S.S. is not a recognized disorder. This information is strictly for educational purposes and not intended to be psychological advice. I have developed a description for spouses experiencing stress over a prenuptial agreement. If a you recognize PASS in yourself, I would welcome any comments. Anne
P.A.S.S.™
Prenuptial Agreement Stress Syndrome
By: Anne Cummings
With the use and misuse of prenuptial agreements, marriages have become more like business deals and less like the intimate relationship between two people. These negotiated contracts often create devastating emotional and financial problems for the spouse of lesser means should the marriage fail. But what happens to that spouse during the marriage can also have devastating and long-term emotional effects. Building a loving relationship can be almost impossible if one partner has power over the other, and when the benefits of marriage are taken away for one partner, the individuals and marriage suffers. A prenuptial agreement can create a caustic environment and cause persistent negative thoughts
Prenuptial Agreement Stress Syndrome which can also be referred to as Prenuptial Agreement Sadness Syndrome can develops soon after the marriage or after years into a marriage which diminishes the significance of one spouse over the other. It can cause severe anxiety over a period of time especially if the marriage accumulates any length.
1) Disturbance of daily activities
*Inability to perform functions such as grocery shopping, cooking cleaning the house especially if the house is not your home.
*Feelings of frustration and anger over your living situation may prevent you from functioning in the marital environment.
*Loss of appetite and desire to function as a loving spouse
*May cause disorganized and agitated behavior as the affected spouse fixates on the minimizing of the marriage.
*May cause physical reactions on a daily basis, such as irritability, panic attacks, nausea, difficulty concentrating, crying, inability to sleep and self-loathing.
*You may begin to fixate daily on your wellbeing should something happen to your spouse.
*You ability to work may be affected due to your fears and frustration.
2) Avoidance and Distancing
*Avoidance of family, especially spouse’s family in social settings
*Detachment from spouse
*Detachment from your own family and friends due to embarrassment and feelings of daily humiliation
*Find it easier to conceal the unbalanced marriage by not attending social events because being around other couples is too depressing and overwhelming.
*Avoid discussing feelings and thoughts about the future of the marriage with your spouse due to the fear of ending the marriage.
3) Loss of hope
*The marital situation can produce a sense or worthlessness
*The relationship may develop aspects of emotional abuse if the prenuptial agreement is used as a weapon to keep a spouse in line
*Realizing that your future may be constrained in such a way that causes daily fear and frustration
*The marriage may begin to feel like a burden and a waste of life
*You feel a sense of a narrowing of your future, and don’t believe that you will live a fulfilling or happy life.
*You begin to feel unimportant and useless.
*You may feel betrayed by your spouse
*You feel diminished due to your lack of marital participation in financial decisions.
4) Depression
*Depression can develop and rigger fear responses due to overwhelming fear of the future if the marriage fails.
*Despair over the inability to develop a secure and happy marriage
*Emotional numbing as it relates to your spouse, your spouses family, and friends.
P.A.S.S. can affect a person’s life and their ability to find stability whether the marriage continues or ends. This stress can affect all aspects of a person’s life including mental, emotional and physical well-being. The prolonged experiencing of such a marriage changes their views about themselves and the environment around them negatively.
The symptoms of P.A.S.S. may not be noticeable for many years. Some people may not associate their symptoms to their premarital agreement lifestyle until the affected spouse realizes it has altered them in ways they cannot easily repair.
=============================================
P.A.S.S. is not a recognized disorder. This information is strictly for educational purposes and not intended to be psychological advice. Always consult a professional source when faced with psychological issues.
Unfortunately I know what you are talking about guys. I can recognise the symptoms of PASS in me. My partner asked me to sigh a prenup few years ago which left me devastated. The country where I come from prenup contract is something new and not many people sigh it. I am a lawyer myself and I know exactly why two people sigh a contract, when just a shake-hand is not enough. Well… my partner tried to convince me that he trusted me and blah blah blah, the prenup was just in case something happens and we are not longer together and I may want his house, cars and so on. I said to him if did not know what type of person he wanted to spend the rest of his life then it was better to separated.
I spent many nights and days crying, trying to understand how someone loves you and he thinks he trusted you…
And in the end of the day when you get divorced you will get as much as you contributed in the marriage (according to the law)… Isn’t it fair?
It was shame to see how his family, who supported him, is so religious and go to the church every Sunday and read the Bible more than anything else (where is not written: “Before you get married arrange your financial issues in case of devoice”).
I hope you will feel better soon Lori!
First off I am so sorry to hear what you are going through … Anytime a lawyer tells you not to sign something especially a prenup ALWAYS listen… Most lawyers are for a prenup no matter what … if they old you not to it was because they read it and deemed it very unfair… If you all separate the judge will more than likely through it out … I always tell people who are so into a “Prenup” that you must understand legally how they work … I find it hard to believe that your husband is as wealthy as he claims and you have to work 2 jobs… you should not be working … and you sure as hell should not be mowing he lawn (sorry I am old school) … If a person has a considerable amount of wealth over their spouse you must leave them something in the event of a divorce… you can not write them out all together … Now if you were wealthy and he was wealthy than you both could say “You take yours and I will take mine” … However in this case that is not so … Also a prenup must be signed at least 30 days before the nuptials .. that way both parties have time to negotiate and think about what they are signing … 1 week is not enough time … You have 2 major legal reason to collect …
I am not a fan of divorce but I feel you are in a bad marriage and might need to consider one … When a man loves a woman it is very obvious … If he loved you and is so wealthy he would have no issue paying for you babies to go to college … he knew you had three kids when he married you …. Trust me I have seen men bend over backwards for women they love.. I have seen men leave their own children and raise another woman’s…
Listen you deserve a man who loves you the way Christ loves the church … he is suppose to be your covering and protector and DAMMIT he is suppose to provide (sorry Lord I know its Holy Week) ..
You deserve the best … you know you are a good woman.. I always say pray about it … talk to the Lord … either ask him to Change your hubby’s heart or help you get out….
You have no reason to feel ashamed or embarrassed.. please talk to your loved ones .. they would want to know …
Do not ever feel ashamed for doing what you felt was right
There are stranger out that love you and want the best .. I want the best for every woman …
May the Lord continue to bless you Richly (Pun Intended )
From my experience, to anyone who is proposed to a prenuptial before marriage is not to marry. There are people out there who go into marriage wanting to share and have trust. It is worth the wait, and as painful as it is to let go, my advice is to do it because the hurt you feel now will always be there if you chose to sign on the dotted line.
Proposed to my girlfriend last april and soon to be wedding on april 27 2013. My family has been pressuring me to get my soon to be wife to sign a prenup for a while now and its really taking a toll on her. I’ve tried talking and reasoning with them. It’s really something else. We’ve discussed this topic well before our engagement and decided it wasn’t for us. I do own a house and have a decent savings but I couldn’t ask her to sign a paper saying the house is only mine but your just living here. Just getting so overwhelming.
Joe,
Thanks for sharing where you are right now in this struggle between your desires and what your family is pressuring you to do. It sounds like you and your soon-to-be wife agree that a prenup is not what you want.
I know it’s easier to say than do, but it sounds like you have to be firm with your family and tell them you appreciate their input, but the decision is made and this issue is over. I’d let them know that their insistence is hurting their relationship with their new daughter-in-law, and that she is now your #1 priority – so they simply must respect your decision and keep their nose out of your business.
Be strong for your wife and keep in mind that come April, the two of you are a new family that must stick together. Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!
Dustin
Thanks, we are excited. Just a shame my family isn’t too happy. Good to see we aren’t the only one’s that think a prenup isn’t something we desire.
Dustin, You said it exactly right.
Joe, You are a rock star!
I so wish my husband had stood up to his family like you are being willing to stand up to yours. Your wife should be first in your life. We’ve been married over 5 years, and I am literally losing sleep over our prenup tonight. It affects me more now than I ever thought it would have back when I signed it. I hate it. And I hate that I was blackmailed into signing it. I love my inlaws, but it really bothers me that they forced their way into structuring my marriage. It has not been good for our relationship. And the prenup makes me feel like we’re not 100% married.
Joe, I’m proud of you for standing up for your wife!!! Your marriage will be so much healthier for it!
I have ran into another situation that is inline with keeping things seperate. Have been doing well for a while with whole prenup issue. Saw a counselor and it did help some. I do believe my husb does love me. But I question some of the life decisions he is making. For our marriage. I asked him yesterday (something he was doing prompted this -working on personal collection inventory list) what would I do if something happened to him? If he suddenly had an accident or illness etc… I have no idea how to get in safes where life ins policies are. I am not on banking accounts. I am not on house deed. I am not even on any car titles. So basically as far as I know I would instantly be homeless and without a car. My first concern was to take care of hos chilsren how did I get them what was supposed to be theirs. I know he has set up an estate with an estate planner etc. but I don’t even know who that is. … His answer for me was to contact his friend. I am DEVASTATED . This is my husband. My soulmate. I have devoted my days to him. I give him everything I have and his important life instructions are given to his friend and not me? I don’t understand. How does a wife spouse girlfriend whatever you are, get past this? He said after my mouth hit the floor he would tell me but I am still in shock. Absolute shock.
I can relate to so many comments here and I was fascinated by the ‘syndrome’.
If anything happens to my husband, I have to contact his secretary. My life will be controlled by the trust and the trustees are his secretary and his friend.
We went through the most awful time when he wanted the prenup signed, to the point where I almost decided not to get married. Even my solicitor was shocked at the way my fiance was treating me.
I decided to overlook the damage it was doing as I loved him and wanted to respect his decision. However, knowing that, in reality, your fiance didn’t really trust you, hurt.
Two days after we got married, in August 2012, (so not long ago) I had the most tremendous pain in my back. Very long story, but after numerous scans it was found to be a tumour in my leg which was diagnosed as secondary cancer. You can imagine the shock!
After I had the tumour removed (three weeks ago), my husband dropped me off at the house and went up to London where he went wine tasting with friends, lunches out etc. I was on crutches and was in considerable pain – sleeping on the sofa etc etc.
This morning, as I came down the stairs he was in the hall with my phone and paperwork and I asked him politely why he was going through my stuff. He became very defensive, shouted and carried on and then told me he wasn’t happy with the relationship; it wasn’t working etc etc. He went back up to London (whilst I went to hospital outpatient appointment).
We have since spoken, where he criticised me for not going shopping, doing something special for Valentines Day (he had told me he wasn’t coming back from London until the following day), etc etc. I couldn’t believe that he hadn’t taken into account that I had been ill etc.
I know this might not seem it has anything to do with the prenup, but to me his lack of trust, understanding about sharing and caring, having a proper relationship is part of his lack of commitment.
He said he wanted a normal relationship ……… I couldn’t help but point out that ‘normal’ couples don’t have prenups, they say we instead of I, their new house is called ours rather than mine; that kind of thing ……
I text him to say how sad I was that he was unhappy with me etc – real heartfelt stuff. His reply was: He couldn’t think straight and he would speak to me when he was feeling better or tomorrow!
From the minute we signed the prenup, I knew I wasn’t valued , respected, even vaguely equal in the relationship.
That’s my experience ……….. so far …………..
Everybody should do what they believe is right for them ….
Sorry for rambling, but I’m so desperately upset and feel so alone.
Peaofsweetness, does that prenup have a fidelity clause? Because your husband cheated/is cheating on you in London. Think about it: he goes alone, boozes it up, doesn’t take your calls because he’s “not feeling well,” comes home and picks fights with you over completely irrational BS, goes through your personal effects…and his SECRETARY is named to handle his estate in the case of his passing?! Get OUT of that marriage before you have nothing left!!
It is awful to feel powerless. And why strong women let ourselves go to that lonely place is baffling.
I recently referred to webster’s for the basics. For peace of mind. For my own sanity and reasoning. To assure myself once again. We are not crazy.
MARRIAGE- the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law.
Why is that contract between god and husband and wife not valid? I am just dumbfounded. We have had many discussions my husb and I how we put each other first always and I feel like a damn lunatic here with the thought of being in crisis and having to follow directions from my husbands friend, atty , acct, etc etc. I am his wife. I feel like it means absolutely nothing to him.
No our prenup doesn’t have a fidelity clause – they’re not acceptable in the UK.
I don’t think he’s having an affair. He has a home in London.
I know he’s selfish and wants his own way and if I don’t ‘toe the line’ he ‘punishes’ me.
I have sent him numerous heartfelt messages and texts today which he has chosen to disregard, other than at last say ” Come up to London, let’s be happy”. I can’t believe he couldn’t even respond to my clear vulnerability, fear, upset etc.
I don’t know how to deal with this ………….
Wow peasofsweetness. What he is doing to you is outright abuse. Even if he’s not cheating… he left you after surgery to remove cancer and then verbally abuses you because you haven’t done the housework and waited on him hand and foot in the days just after surgery….
That’s exactly what my ex did – bullied me into doing the housework for him while I was recovering from major surgery – led to a permanent serious back injury to me while trying. And two days after the surgery he raped me because I said no because I was in too much pain for sex.
We didn’t have a prenup – it was me who brought all the money and assets into the marriage, and it was he who spent them all on drugs and left me with nothing, and he walked away with the only asset we had (superannuation) and I got left with $100K of debt and no ability to work due to the injuries I had from him – both the back injury and the injuries from beatings over the years after that.
So seriously you can’t put a fidelity clause in a prenup in Britain? that’s screwed up. Infidelity and abuse (including abandonment and neglect like what your husband is putting you through) should be the only reasons for a prenup (and divorce). What sort of stupid country ignores infidelity???
Love how the women here have disorders and the such to validate the monies they think they are owed from their successful husbands actually making a living especially if they have children. All men out there.. get a pre-nup and if they won’t sign it then don’t marry them, bottom line. They will all take you to court at a drop of a hat and you, most of the time end up holding the bag. Why do you think the divorce rate nationowide is 50%. Christian or not… do you think Jesus would ask for 50% of all your wealth if you decided not to believe in him anymore? Don’t believe the hype and go consult an attorney before you get married. It may the be the best $500.00 you ever spent!!!
Duke, Jesus asks for your 100% whether you believe in him or not. It’s no comparison. If people truly gave 100% to their marriage, the divorce rate would be nil.
Unfortunately, there are opportunistic people in this world looking for a way to take advantage. One has to remove the dollar signs from the benefits of marriage, there it will only then remain pure. I believe if the woman or man only want to marry for financial reasons, one will ultimately be screwed. If one really loves the other get married. If one really loves money get a job.
Jose, when there is no WE in marriage, there is no marriage. Good luck on whoever YOU decide to take advantage of.
It’s been fun seeing everyone’s opinion on this subject. It’s tough for me to even go through with demanding my soon to be wife to sign a document like this before we even get married. I understand why my family feels like its necessary to do so. I have talked to a family lawyer about creating prenup. It felt so wrong I couldn’t go thru with it. Didn’t feel right for me. It was almost if she was pinning me against my girl friend. Wasn’t a pleasant experience to say the least.
So I’ve put a lot of thought into this pre-nuptual thing. Really, it’s a good idea. I’m sorry, but if you and your soon to be wife can sit down and discuss what would happen should you both grow in different directions, then you will probably accept the possibility that you could grow in different directions and might make an extra effort to grow in similar directions.
Ok, enough of my soap box. If you don’t do your own pre-nup, the state has one for you. The state describes how you will divorce. Fine. If you understand the terms of that pre-nup, then you can position yourself to handle it. Most states are very similar. Basically, any money you make after the day you are married is a marital asset and will be divided 50/50. Any money you have before you get married in an account NEVER titled in your spouse’s name and NEVER used for a martial function, like paying for a house and such, is untouchable. So on the day you get married, print out your account statements, don’t touch that money anymore, and keep copies forever. Meanwhile, if a divorce is coming, spend all the marital assets like your dying. It’s a 50% off sale! Kids? She gets them, he can see them every other weekend, and you can down load the child support worksheet anytime you like. Figure on $500/month per kid per $50k you earn. Here’s the dirty little secret on child support. Its a 50% off sale on child care. It costs 50% less to pay the child support than to take care of the kids yourself. I promise. And you don’t have to put up with those kids except as a weekend hero. Loser gets the kids.
Finally, we have the house. So let’s say you’re a guy, and you think a divorce is coming. She’s going to screw you with a domestic violence order. So get out of the house!!! Go get an apartment, spend marital assets and furnish it, and GET OUT!!! Meanwhile, make absolutely sure one of 2 things is true. 1. Your name alone is on the mortgage and title of the house, kick her and the kids out, and sell the house before the divorce is filed. 2. Both your names are on the mortgage and title, so when you stop paying the mortgage (and you should stop), you both have your credit trashed. The usual advise applies, cut all your credit cards and pay them off. Leave your spouse with hers or his. They’re not your problem once the divorce starts, so long as the accounts are zero at the time the spouse is served. Debts are split 50/50 as well, so keep that in mind as a strategy. If your spouse wants you to pay his/her pre-marital debts off with your pre-marital assets, run.
Now this sounds harsh, so here’s from the woman’s perspective, if she were honorable, and she’s not. A divorce is coming. Get out of the house WITH the kids, live within your means, and sell the house. Split the assets quickly 50/50, offer fair visitation, and settle the divorce in 31 days with the most amount of money in both your pockets, ready to start a new life. Here is what women do. They believe their entitled, even when they cheat, so they’ll squat in the house, raise hell with their attorney (costing $100,000) in attorney fees (divorce attorney’s hate women because they want blood instead of just getting out), and they cry victim when they leave themselves destitute. Because women, unless you are going to realize that divorce is ultimately about money, and the best way to get the most is to fight the least
So women, since you know you’ll screw yourself over in your emotional state to take down the guy you once loved, get a friggin pre-nup, if for no other reason than to protect yourself from yourself.
A couple of other tricks. Married more than 10 years? Alimony’s a bitch. Get divorced after 5-10 years. You can always re-marry the same person later. The ironic thing about this, it’ll have the same impact as asking for a pre-nup. Because you’re restating the state’s pre-nup. And for God’s sake, if your relationship is not serving you, file for divorce and get out. Don’t stick with it for some reason that doesn’t matter. You only have on life. Enjoy it!
Wow Ian, bitter much?
I hate to break it to you, the world doesn’t all run like that. My exhusband took all the assets I had from before we were married – I had assets, he had nothing but massive debts. He managed to get all those debts into my name – some honestly, some behind my back deceitfully (actually criminally some of it).
When we split, he walked away with the few assets we had left, and I was left with all the debt.
No alimony despite the fact I was left a total cripple from the injuries he gave me and despite the fact he has a good job because we don’t do alimony here in Australia, and spousal support is extremely rare and requires extremely exceptional circumstances.
As for child support being $500 a month on a $50K income? I WISH. I get $50 a month – FIFTY not five hundred – and his income is $50K and the way our government works the welfare system, I lose 50c of my government support for every $1 he pays in child support, so we effectively only get $25 a month. And this is for an autistic child who needs lots of therapy – none of which he pays for at all. not a cent. The $25 a month doesn’t even cover 10% of the cost of feeding, doesn’t cover 1% of her medical bills, etc.
And I was the one repeatedly bashed and cheated on – yet I was the one left with raising our child and in debt up to my eyeballs for debts I never received a cent in benefit from (things like him writing off a car he used violence to threaten me into cosigning his loan which he then went bankrupt, leaving me with the debt etc).
So while you’re slagging women off, it’s men who abuse the system here – take all of a woman’s assets, leave her with all the debts, leave her with the kids, pays a few lousy dollars child support (if you earn under $30K you only have to pay a lousy $20 a month child support), pay no alimony and screw her in every other way, while your kids live in poverty and you can live the high life – and even if you earn over $300K a year, you still don’t have to pay anywhere near $500 a month.
I have been divorced 6 years and I’m still paying off the debts my ex ran up in my name while living on a disability pension and getting a few lousy dollars child support – while he blows half his pay on prostitutes, drugs and buying presents for his mistresses.
Not all women are what you described – I just wanted to get out without his debts and I couldn’t even do that.
You sound like a bitter man with a hatred for women. You obviously don’t understand a Christian marriage.
People with real circumstances come here desperate for resolution and comfort. Not a rant from a shallow minded person like yourself.
I could not imagine a conversation with you. I’m sure it’s very easy for you to yell and scream at people here than really try to effectively communicate.
Good luck
Wish I could have much sympathy for you. Why would you tie the knot with some guy who’s got massive debt without a pre-nup? You made the case for a pre-nup. Sound like you enjoy being a victim. I’d be very interested in what your 30 and 60 day status hearings sounded like. What your conversations with your attorney sounded like. You did this to yourself.
Read the column. I am not the correct one u r referring to.
Good luck. I hope you find a woman that will put up with your anger and hatred.
Ian … the only reason anyone should be tying the knot. Because they love someone and are committed to spending their life with them for better or worse. Not everyone is obsessed with money like you are.
I have no idea what a 30/60 day status hearing is because I’m from Australia. Our legal system works very different from where you are from.
And if you knew anything about aussie law, they’ve discovered a loophole in the law that basically invalidates most prenups anyway – nearly all prenups before a few years ago aren’t even legally binding due to a flaw in the law. So even a prenup wouldn’t have helped.
Australia isn’t the litigious country that america is, and here we marry for love not money generally.
Finally, a prenup STILL would not have helped, even if I had my premarriage assets, and my ex had ended up with his debts, the reality is, the violence he committed against me meant that I was unable to continue my career path to being a doctor and now cannot work at all. Our system basically does not recognise alimony, and while I had a case for spousal maintenance due to my injuries (something very rare in Australian law to have a case for), the reality is, I’d still not have got a cent out of pursuing spousal maintenance.
As mentioned, I cannot work. Spousal maintenance (in the rare cases it is granted) is simply deducted from disability pensions. As I had to abandon my career during my studies to be a doctor, I was only eligible to receive spousal maintenance for the income I was receiving at the time of my injuries. Not my previous higher income nor my future income that I would have had as a doctor. So my spousal maintenance wouldn’t have been much, and would have only replaced my disability pension which means I’d be no better off – the only difference being I get my current income half from my ex and half from the government instead of all from the government.
And ultimately, I wouldn’t have got a cent – you can’t get blood from a stone. We are not the US, it is not a crime to not pay child support or spousal maintenance. If a man quits his job, the government can only force him to pay $6 a week total in child support and spousal maintenance per expartner. And even then, there are ways to get out of paying that, which is what my exhusband did for many years. Even now, he only pays around $20 a week child support for our autistic daughter who requires a lot of therapy. And again, it decreases my daughter’s meagre $80 a week payment from the government by $10 so we’re only $10 a week better off with him paying child support than not paying.
Prenups can’t protect you from being screwed by a bad former partner, even legally binding ones, in Australia. Unless your exhusband is extremely rich, neither a prenup nor spousal maintenance is worth anything.
Prenuptial agreements: a legal way to bully someone
just figure to give an update. Helps me venting like this. My family basically cut ties with me and want no contact with my soon to be wife. We’ve postponed our wedding that was supposed to be this saturday. The people were really nice about giving our money back from the venue. We’ve decided just to have a destination wedding and just forget everyone. Both families are feuding and can’t reason with any of them. The only way my folks could accept our marriage would be with a prenup. All this for a damn prenup. really unbelievable.
OMG. u r doing the right thing. Be patient. It would put such a strain on your marriage if you are truly struggling with having a prenup. I would have never done it. NEVER. It makes me question myself on a regular basis.
Yeah it really would put a huge strain on our marriage. I couldn’t follow thru and get married with all this going on. Both of our families are in complete turmoil over the situation. I’ve decided against a prenup but my folks don’t understand my reasoning. I see they’re concern and are trying to take care of me. But I really need to do what I believe is best for my soon to be wife and I.